A woman's place and a man's responsibilities...........

Um - yea they do.  You either got materials or you got a 401K that Bill Gates trying to hold $5 from.

Drive with no results ain't drive - that's DREAM.  And that don't work for me.

If you hustlin with nothing to show for it, you're not hustlin, you're playin. 

Either way - like Erica Badu said in Call Tyrone....

SHOW AND PROVE, OR GET THA BOOT!!!!! 

 MM, I have no use for a trifling folk either.  

Amen!! Amen!!!  Women are to be pursued, but too often we (women) are emotionally starving for attention and affection (more on the reasons why later).  Many of us have our lives together, financially, professionally, socially, spiritually etc, etc, but we aren't being fed emotionally.  So at the slightest taste, we forget our place, our roll, our worth, our value and start chasing men.   WE get it twisted!  That is out of God's order of things.  Men pursue.  We are worthy of being pursued so let them and any man not willing to chase you or only runs so far or starts out the chase hot then looses his stamina or interest (otherwise known as emotional ADD)....not worth your time.  Shake the dust from your shoes....

AND - not every mofo chasing you should actually CATCH you......

Exactly!!  I have dodged many a bullet and been so happy to have done so!

I wish I had something to add to this debate, but I ummm am waffling on the idea of making the conscious decision on whether or not I am willing to 'settle'. 

I will just sit back and try to absorb the pro woman message of this thread.

My male friends say they don't like women who don't have standards.  Yes, they will take whatever the woman offers but they don't have much respect for her.  Women who give up too much without a commitment are not considered wife material.  One friend in particular wants a woman who is slightly out of reach standardwise because he feels that type of woman will push or encourage him to be his best.  This is really important for men who feel like they are not where they want to be. But they shouldn't expect the woman to help them financially to get to where she is...   I have been called a hard a$$ because I wouldn't compromise my standards.  I think men will respect you if you tell them you are not in the same place and just not ready for each other. I've never had a man angry with me because I always let them know what I'm about in a nice way.

My husband used to have women who cleaned his apartment, cooked dinner for him and dropped it off, and did his laundry.  I didn't do anything of that stuff because in my mind that was stuff a wife should do... how in the heck can you upgrade your status to wife if you are already doing the job?

Approaching men is a trap.  If a man is seriously interested he will approach you. I also think that women need to be more gracious when men approach them.  Even if a man approaches you the wrong way do not stoop to that level because you never know who is watching how you handle yourself.  The man who is right for you just might be watching.

"One friend in particular wants a woman who is slightly out of reach standardwise because he feels that type of woman will push or encourage him to be his best."

See I never understood men like this....that's crazy to me!! He should want his best for himself. What about when she decides to leave? OR If she's not going to accept the fact that he isn't there yet!!!!

"I didn't do anything of that stuff because in my mind that was stuff a wife should do... how in the heck can you upgrade your status to wife if you are already doing the job?"

I agree if you giving me all that before hand before any title...whats the challenge?????

And  I so agree w/ the gracious thing....that's real talk!!

Amen and Amen and Amen!!!!!!

I've dated bruhs who told me they felt like they had to step up to feel 'on par' with me - your mate SHOULD drive you to be a better you, as you should challenge them. 

and if you givin up everything up front - heyl naw they aren't going to be serious - that's why I crack up at personal ads where dudes talk about a casual 'relationship' (i.e. xes) with benefits and then say 'let's see where it leads'.....

NO WHERE!!!  I know *I* can't take a mofo seriously that started as a hook up for me - I'm always thinkin - where you been?  What you been doin?  I ain't gonna do ___ cause he ain't for real about me......

Good to hear you got a good head on your shoulders MACK...if only MOST women today followed this path men would give them MORE RESPECT.. I have talked to MANY men about this SAME subject and they mentioned it is a turnoff for women to approach them and pursue them.(some will say they like it but truth be told they really don't)...as I have always said MEN are hunters by nature REGARDLESS of how independent women are today, they THINK they are doing a man a favor by paying for meals or going dutch especially in the beginning of a relationship, ...MEN like to be the hunters and they LIKE to PURSUE women.

I am strictly old school, I expect a man to pay for meals/ entertainment etc.... during my courtship/dating, HOWEVER....if he has paid his dues with me then I will gladly pick up the tab and pay for things and buy him things from MY experience men tend to respect women who are bi$ches and not push overs ...in my marriage, there will be NO HIDDEN MONEY his paycheck will go into OUR account and it will be fully accounted for and his money is my money and my money is MY money.....just kidding I believe if you can't trust a man then you should not be with him...

This is why it took SO long for me find A good man -- trust me, I dated plenty and good men are hard to find, black, white, hispanic...etc the reason they are hard to find is that women have spoiled them rotten, they will do ANYTHING TO KEEP THEM, give up sex quickly, pay to keep them etc...it really SAD out there their standards have been lowered I mean you got men who look like Flava Flav  PIMPING FINE STUPID YOUNG WOMEN; hell look at all these ugly rappers like Li' Wayne got several fine women pregnant at the same time .--how low can these young women go...I hate DRAMA filled relationships this is why I avoided men with small kids....I dated a few but most of the guys I dated WITH KIDS...paychecks were being controlled and manipulated by their ex-wife's or baby mommas...so I avoided men with small kids...Nana don't do drama...I want my man all to myself...lol....and trust me that's very hard to find in 2009...they are good men out there, you just have to sift through the garbage to find a good knight in shining Armour....